TSAI

People on the Mic

My co-host, Moe Mitchell, has his own podcast, In The Moement, which is funny, insightful, and lifestyle-driven. It also speaks volumes to the importance of the people we put on the mic. Do you want to host a show solo, or include other like-minded, knowledgeable folks? How do you find quality co-hosts, and how do you make sure they’re on brand with your consistent content designed to make an impact? I’ll answer these questions, and more, in this chapter and the following, which are dedicated to the people who help make your podcast a success.

But first, I’ll let Moe tell his own story of going solo:

I went to solo podcasting initially as a challenge to myself.

When I first began to podcast, I did it alone, but over time I just got comfortable with having a team. It was easier and I felt as if I needed it. After a while, quite a few people kept recommending that I give solo a shot and I did.

It was rough waters at first, feeling as if I needed to find a way to fill the same amount of time with the same level of entertainment without the benefit of being able to converse with and bounce off of other people.

After a couple of episodes, I feel like I found my groove and to my surprise it was a lot more natural than I anticipated; it was actually easier. It was easier to collect my thoughts and express them fully and more precisely. I feel like I found my comedic groove; I was able to mimic the things I do on stage more accurately and authentically behind a mic.

I’m a visionary and a thinker, and it made it a little simpler to capture my visions and put them into words when I was no longer focused on making someone else comfortable. It gave me the space that I needed to be more authentic in what I talk about and how I talk about it, which in turn has made it a more authentic “moment” with me.

It’s become somewhat of a therapeutic moment with myself. That’s priceless. I wasn’t sure if it made my podcast better at first, but if I’m going with the feedback from listeners, it’s miles better.

Doing a solo podcast is challenging. You have to find a way to be intriguing enough that people will actually want to sit through listening to you have a conversation with yourself. It might be a bit difficult for some people to think of themselves as that entertaining. It’s not impossible though. I think it just requires a little more preparation. You have to have a clear vision on what you want the focus of your podcast to be: humor, informative, educational, etc.

Approach every week as a brand new one and give people reasons to look forward to you having something to say. Find something you have that people want and continue to pour into that every week, while leaning on whatever it is that you consider your strength.

Solo or Co-Host?

It’s a simple equation, as far as I’m concerned. More people on the mic equals more headaches (No offense, The Bert Show team.). For me, having a co-host is a pain because I’d rather spend my time recording episodes on my own than comparing calendars to record together (Fortunately, we don’t have this issue with The Bert Show. That said, additional hosts mean more people promoting the show into their orbits. And I’ve never done a solo show. I’m not talented enough to talk to myself for an hour. Plus, I love having others on my team score as much as I like scoring. I love setting people up and working as a team. The last maturation of my radio show was pretty seamless. But it took me my whole career to figure out what makes a great team.

On the other hand, if you want to listen to a podcaster who is talented enough to pull off a consistently funny, relatable, authentic weekly show, check out Heather McMahan’s Absolutely Not. So talented. So funny. And she is a great example of someone who knows how to deliver “A” material every week for an entire hour. Not many can do this. She needs nobody on this show with her. In fact, when she does have guests, I get kinda bummed out ’cause it takes away from listening to just Heather talk. Way more talented than I am. I could never do this!

However, if you’re thinking about putting an ensemble cast together for your show, you can definitely make it work. Here are some things to consider to help you make the right decision for you.

Co-Host Cohabitation

The first thing to ask yourself when putting together this team is, “Are we going to be able to communicate with each other?” If you’re reading this, the chances are good that you’re a new podcaster. You’re inexperienced. Your other hosts may be inexperienced. You all are going to have to make adjustments along the way and be able to communicate with honesty and without ego. This is not easy. The hosts might have different ideas on how to execute content.

It’s incredibly important that you and your team are mature enough and have the empathy that will allow you to genuinely listen to each other and not be offended. The best way to ensure this: Hire someone who knows podcasting to act as a middleman—he or she can listen to all parties and make suggestions equally. (Heck, hire me so you and your hosts don’t end up with a murder case on your hands.)

Managing yourself is a challenge, and I know few teams that do it well, without resentment or tension. If you don’t manage it, you end up failing. Period.

The Cautionary Tale of Call Her Daddy

Call Her Daddy is a great example of a podcast imploding because of bad communication between co-hosts. In 2018, Alexandra Cooper and Sofia Franklyn launched the comedy podcast, discussing their exploits with men in New York City, soon building a cult following. When they shifted to a Barstool Sports platform, Call Her Daddy went from twelve thousand downloads to two million. But as they renegotiated their Barstool contract, Sofia said Alexandra stabbed her in the back, and the show went belly-up until Alexandra started it up again as a solo host—without the same chemistry from Sofia. See how pettiness, poor communication, and conflicting agenda can ruin a perfectly profitable good thing?

Values and Intentions

Surround yourself with people you trust, with no hidden agendas, who think of the product before themselves and have a positive attitude even when you guys are struggling. Want instant karma? Good luck with that! It took me an entire career to finally identify the right mix of people who genuinely cared about each other as people and cared as much about the product as I did. I had one staff member, behind my back, walk into our bosses’ office and tell them either he or I had to go. Keep in mind the show was in my name. So it’s a little like Questlove going to NBC and saying, “Look, either Jimmy Fallon has to go or me!”

I also interviewed one woman for a co-hosting position, ending with a tour of the station before I headed back to my office. I later heard that when I left her in the studio with some other personnel, she started telling them what the studio would look like when she was hired and how she’d rearrange the on-air staff seating when she took the job. Nope. She didn’t land the job, and I ended up hiring the most loyal, authentic, funny co-host who made me a better person and professional.

The point? Hire people who share your values and sniff out bad intentions. Find the right fit for your personality and for your schedule. My personality radar is pretty good. But sometimes I didn’t listen to it because I was too insecure to make the right personnel decisions. I didn’t believe in my talent. Don’t make that mistake. Believe in yourself!

You want to hear a great podcast that you can lose yourself in? Listen to SmartLess. Sean Hayes, Will Arnett, and Jason Bateman get it! I was skeptical at first because a lot of celebrity podcasters think, If I just talk about my life, people will love it. Um, no. Just because you’re you, it doesn’t make you entertaining. Also, putting a few A-listers on a podcast together could be a very cautionary tale because of egos. But these guys table their egos, are relatable, tell great stories, and have amazing chemistry. It’s so fun to listen to. They must be making a boatload of money!

Define Roles

This is critical. Playing it by ear doesn’t work! Let’s underscore and bold and italicize and post this in big ol’ neon letters: Playing it by ear doesn’t work. I’ve seen so many shows implode because one person thinks they are doing more work than the other when the truth is they are working equally just on different things, but one puts more value on their aspect of the podcast. One host might be focusing on the content and show schedule. The other might be marketing and editing. Both are working. Just working differently. These roles will become increasingly clear as you start working together. Don’t fight it. Go with each member’s strengths.

Ryan Dobson, the co-host of Rebel Parenting with Ryan & Laura Dobson, teams up with his wife to help fellow parents navigate the hectic life of parenting. Together, they’ve learned the art of collaborating. And they’re not just collaborating with one another: Ryan and Laura have an entire behind-the-scenes team they can always trust to get the job done right.

To Ryan, one of the most valuable life lessons is that success doesn’t come from working on your weaknesses. Instead, Ryan believes the key lies in shifting your focus toward building on what you’re already great at.

In other words, there’s no use in trying to improve in something you’re consistently weak in. Ryan finds a much better use of his time in tripling down on what he’s great at. And he applies this same logic to his podcast. That’s why he employs an A-team he can count on to crown his show with the “shine” it needs to impress listeners.

As somebody whose father was a radio “Hall-of-Famer,” Ryan takes great pride (and emphasis) in his belief that “high-quality content is KING.” The fact that Ryan can wholeheartedly trust his editors and engineers to get the job done right evokes a sense of freedom in him that he has fallen in love with, and I don’t blame him. If you want that same feeling, then you ought to take notes from this man—and you also better ask yourself the hard questions.

For example, is one of you better at the transitioning in and out of topics? Is one of you a better reactor? How are you going to divide up the content? How are you going to filter the content before you start the podcast?

This is super important stuff. Ego will kill any relationship. Here comes the neon sign again! Ego will kill any relationship. It doesn’t matter if it’s marriage or dating or at work or with your parents. Ego kills any relationship, and business is no different. And when you’re entertaining, you’re already dealing with a certain amount of ego, right? And ego does not have to be a bad word. It’s necessary. But you feel like you have something to say. You want to be heard. Your content is uber personal. You’re invested in your own content. It’s really hard to sacrifice your content for somebody else’s. It’s so hard. But you have to. You have to work as a team. You’re in a relationship if your podcast has more than just you behind a mic.

If you can find someone to produce the show, someone you respect and you have the money, I would suggest finding someone who manages the other aspects.

For instance, one person might be doing the podcast schedule, booking guests, and marketing. The other person is editing, working on content, helping plan new shows, and more. These are the people behind the scenes—which is just what we’ll discuss in the next chapter.

NOW HEAR THIS

• A solo podcast can be challenging. Consider a co-host—but most of all, go with what makes you comfortable.
• Roles will develop. Identify and amplify each other’s talents.
• Make sure you and your team members can listen with empathy before deciding to work together. Ego will kill your podcast—and every relationship you’re in.
• Surround yourself with people you trust.
• Define roles clearly and carefully.