TSAI

Who Cares (Besides Your Mom)?

Tom Schwab knows more about successful podcasting than almost anybody else on the planet. In 2014, he realized that targeted podcast interviews tap into existing audiences, much like guest blogging. The result was Interview Valet, a company that connects podcasters with guests, driving millions upon millions of downloads for his clients. Tom is also the author of Podcast Guest Profits: Grow Your Business with a Targeted Interview Strategy and a genuinely good guy who was gracious enough to lend his expertise for this book—in this case, on the people who care: your audience.

“You’re judged by the people who you associate with, the quality of the people you have on your show,” says Tom. “And there are currently 1.8 million podcasts out there. Many of them are what I call ‘Wayne’s World’ podcasts, two guys in their mom’s basement.”

If somebody hears you, says Tom, they Google you and they find you on that podcast. Chances are they’ll make an instant decision on your quality, and “Wayne’s World” is not going to cut it. “You want to make sure that whoever finds you, wherever they find you, that it helps your brand too.” Tom adds how studies show the average podcast listener is above-average education, with above-average income. By definition, they’re early adopters. But as of this writing, 57 percent of Americans over twelve years of age listen to podcasts—which means your audience is waiting for you.

You have your podcast. You have your vision. You know what you want to do.

But who is it you want to be talking to? Are you talking to one specific person, or a huge group of listeners?

Now that you’ve learned about all the possibilities, this chapter is all about your audience. We’ll talk about building a cult following later in the book; for now, let’s focus on the simple act of reaching listeners—the type of listeners who will remain loyal and help you generate genuine connection.

One Person—or One Million?

I don’t necessarily talk to one person. I talk to one gender, because communicating to a twenty-one-year-old woman is so different from talking to a forty-nine-year-old woman. And my demographic really is women between the ages of twenty-one and forty-nine. So I’ve got people on my show who communicate with the younger demo. But for me, it’s gender. You have to know who your audience is, and you have to stick to your one thing. I work with one podcaster who also has an audience of predominantly women. But every now and then he throws something in about topics that are not primarily targeted to women, such as UFC or boxing, which are generally liked by more men than women. I love sports more than anybody else, but I have to stick to what interests my audience.

Staying focused on your one thing attracts your audience and keeps that audience loyal. I see any additional listeners as icing on the cake.

What happens if you launch your show for middle-aged women, but all of a sudden it attracts a Gen Z audience?

My advice: stay authentic. If you try to cater to your audience, you’re screwed. And it doesn’t necessarily have to be a gender and age thing. If you are doing a podcast about therapy, stick to therapy topics, and don’t talk about anything outside of therapy. People are coming to you for a specific reason. Maybe your niche is plumbing, or maybe your niche is accounting. Give them what they want and do not surprise them.

William Corbin of Sound That Brands brings up The Message, which is co-produced by GE and geared toward engineers. “I would have to imagine that any engineer listening to that podcast will favor GE and their buying decisions,” he says, “just to ensure the podcast sticks around because nobody wants to lose it.”

In radio, the theory is that you have eight seconds to grab someone’s attention. Podcasting gives you a lot of grace here. Most people in a podcasting audience listen to 80 percent of an episode. Don’t be fooled by this statistic. This might be true for regular listeners. But a new listener needs to be gripped quickly so you build loyalty which, in turn, is rewarded with longer listening. Nobody likes waiting for content, no matter what the medium. For me, when I listen to a podcast, you better get to it within the first thirty seconds. I don’t want to fast forward. I have to get to the info that I’m looking for. There are some really popular podcasters who I’ve heard go up to fourteen minutes with nothing but ads or talking about their projects. And that absolutely drives me crazy. But I guarantee they would have never done that when they first started. You’ve got to get into your topic as quickly as possible. There are just way too many options now, way too many podcasts to be messing around with your audience because it’s too easy to find something else. A good tease or a “table of contents” in the beginning of your podcast can be super helpful. But it has to be done correctly. More on that later.

Do Your Homework

How do you know whether or not your audience actually cares about your content? It’s partly instinctual. And your numbers are going to show if your audience cares and is still listening. But you have to do your homework, just like before you even start your podcast. There’s got to be a reason why you’re starting that podcast. So knowing your audience and doing your homework on what you’re going to be talking about should lead you down the right path. If your podcast is about relationships, find sources online that deliver similar material and put your unique spin on the topic. You are what separates you from everybody else. You can’t be copied. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel. If you find a podcast you love and it’s in your interest zone, repurpose some of that material and make it your own. No, don’t copy it. But if you find it interesting, chances are really good your audience will find it interesting too. Again, the difference is you. Your unique spin. Your unique connection to the content.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

We respect our audience, and we hear them. We treat them with respect, even if they have a totally different idea than we do. Some podcasters like to beat the crap out of their audience, but we’re not like that at The Bert Show. We’d rather hear your side and then, if we need to, respectfully disagree with you.

We’re people who have mics in front of us—we’re no more special than a bus driver, a nurse, a teacher, a mom. In fact, we’re less special, because we go in and riff on each other for hours. So, instead, our job is to make the audience feel special.

On that front, we can all take a lesson from Kristin Ingram, the host of Small Biz Mama. As a busy wife, mother, and entrepreneur who was (and still is) juggling the complexities of being a CPA all while serving her community, she began to lose sight of one of the most important pieces of the puzzle—taking care of herself. Many of her listeners have found themselves in the same boat, and they tune in and reach out to her because she doesn’t wear any sort of chip on her shoulder. Instead, she goes above and beyond to wear her heart on her sleeve.

Kristen makes an effort to talk to those who reach out to her as her podcast guides others through the struggle. She makes a point to reply to emails, feature her listeners, and more. Overall, she goes above and beyond to ensure she helps others to feel less vulnerable, isolated, or overwhelmed. And that’s exactly why Kristin has developed a concentrated but fervent following of listeners who see her as a good friend rather than a face. She makes a point to never hold back on any emotionality—and that’s exactly the respect your listeners both want and deserve.

Your audience has a million opportunities to go elsewhere. So if they choose to sit with you for an hour of your podcast, you have to honor it. The most important thing in their life is their time, and they’re investing their time in you—they’re coming to you for a specific reason, either to escape or to learn something. You have got to take that seriously.

Once you have an air of arrogance, you lose your audience. So I’ve purposely built a staff of like-minded people who are humble and know that we’re not better than anyone else. Our diversity is also key.

The Numbers Game

We’ve all heard about podcasters who are making millions off yoga practices for pregnant people and other super micro-focused content. There are only so many listeners out there who are expecting a baby and expecting to do sun salutations until the big day arrives. So they say the riches are in the niches, because when it comes to audience numbers, sometimes it’s not necessarily just quantity. It’s more about the quality of those listeners.

I’ve worked with a lot of podcasts that have a larger audience, but the smaller podcasts tend to have a lot more credibility, and more chances to make a lot of money. There might be a dentist who’s making a ton of cash while getting only about eight hundred downloads per episode. This happens a lot when people have influence with a really specific group and credibility. Even if they don’t have a huge audience, they have huge opportunities. If you’ve got eight hundred people listening to each episode, are selling a high-end product or service that generates $1,000 in revenue for you, and even forty people are buying per month, you can make a boatload of money out of it.

Keep your focus on your niche instead of your numbers, and you’ll attract more loyal listeners. When you first start a podcast and you’ve got a new audience, it’s all about credibility, the way you communicate, and your connection. The only way to build that audience is for them to know you, love you, and trust you. And if you’re not going headfirst in a credible way or an intimate way, your audience can find fifty other podcasters who are talking about the same stuff you are. The goal isn’t to have them like you. The goal is to have them love you. So if you miss a week, they’re actually upset. You’re getting all sorts of complaints about it.

The only way to find love from your listeners is through credibility, communication, and intimacy. This lasts until the very final moment of your podcast when you can tease what’s coming up in the next one. So that means preparing in advance.

Many podcasters—especially new podcasters—have one show scheduled. When it ends, they have nothing for next week. This may work when you’re a known podcast—Joe Rogan has his loyal audience and they don’t care what he’s going to talk about next week. They’re tuning in no matter what. But if you’re a new podcast, you want to give them a reason to come back next week with some kind of sensational tease. It becomes embedded in them: “On Tuesday, I’ve got to check that podcaster on yoga poses for pregnant women, not only because I love them but also because they’re covering the material I read that intrigued me the week before.” It might be a great idea to suggest setting an alarm on their phone so they don’t miss your award-winning teased podcast.

Advertisers and Audiences

Let’s flip the script for a moment. With great content, you’re more likely to engage an audience that trusts you—and will trust your advertisers, too, which means more revenue. As Kurt Kaufer writes for Forbes: “Advertisers can rest assured that the vast majority of people that tune into a podcast will actually listen to ads, unlike the viewability challenges often associated with digital video. Various sources agree that podcast consumers listen to at least 80% of each episode.”¹⁴

Kaufer cites a four-thousand-person survey that found 90 percent of audiences listen to podcasts at home. “This type of focused and personal listening can help to drive the efficiency associated with podcast advertising and generate leads,” he writes. “Advertisers can take advantage of these engaged listeners by creating relationships with podcast hosts, onboarding them to their product or service, having them become enthusiastic brand advocates themselves and leveraging the power of their live endorsement in the context of the show.” Incredibly, he adds, almost half of podcast consumers surveyed in one report “said they believe that podcast hosts they regularly listen to actually use the products/services mentioned on their podcasts.”

It’s a win-win-win when you engage your audience effectively. You get a loyal following, advertisers get to connect, and your listeners get quality content and recommendations for products and services that match their lifestyle.

Social Media

Social media can be a really helpful tool when it comes to promoting your content, but most podcasters do it incorrectly. Teasing your content properly is everything. In other words, you have to make your tease super intriguing to force someone to change their routine and check out your podcast. For example, you might tease, “Episode 22 of Two Men Talking About Nothing Important: chatting with #ChrisPratt.” That kind of tease might get the attention of Chris Pratt fans. But you’re going for a wider audience. Your tease has to make the ambivalent Chris Pratt fan interested. Tease them with a highlight from the interview:

• “#ChrisPratt tells us how he knew his marriage was over on the Two Men Talking About Nothing Important podcast”
• “#ChrisPratt hates #ChrisPine for good reason!”
• “Chris Pratt tells us why he’s insecure about his private parts on the latest Two Men Talking About Nothing Important podcast”

The difference is massive. Sensationalize your teases, link to your podcasts, and intrigue a potential listener with social media.

“One of the things that I tell people when it comes to social media is if you wait too long, then you’re going to make mistakes,” says Chris Krimitsos. “You’re building a social media presence, but you haven’t launched a podcast yet. Your business is growing, your speaking places, whatever. But you haven’t launched your podcasts yet. By definition, you’re not going to be as good on episode one as you’re going to be on episode one hundred.” Here we go again: start ugly.

And trust me, ugly is the operative word for the next chapter, as I share how to handle the toughest stuff in the podcasting business.

NOW HEAR THIS

• A new podcasting audience is fickle. You have to capture their attention quickly if you’re going to build loyalty.
• You are judged by the quality of people on your show.
• Be aware and smart with your social media presence. Think of social media as a commercial for a product.
• The riches are in the niches. In other words, don’t get caught up in massive numbers.